What's the chance Ego produces a riding mower?

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This conversation has been merged. Please reference the main conversation: EGO Electric Riding Zero-Turn Mower

I understand it would cost a fair amount to develop and carry a hefty retail price tag but the 20 inch cut requires about 2 hours of my time every week - and that's only if I don't water the grass. I would really like to have a 40 inch cut zero turn motor to make my life a lot easier. I tried a gas engine Toro mower and it was terrible.. I forgot how loud they are and how bad they smell.

Any chance a nice zero turn electric mower is quietly being developed?
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Marcus Gilliam

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Posted 3 years ago

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David HD, Champion

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I hear you Marcus, join the club as there are many tools we all want EGO to develop - but it will take some time to make.  Here are some of the items everyone has been asking for:

1. Grass Edger
2. Air Compressor
3. Blower/Vac
4. Wet/Dry Vac
5. Table Saw
6. Jigsaw
7. Circular Saw
8. Sander
9. Band Saw
10. Router
11. Work Light
12. Work Radio
13. Pressure Washer
14. Car Buffer

If I miss anything, please feel free to add to our "WISH LIST."
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Marcus Gilliam

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LOL. The pressure washer and table saw would be nice. I have everything else covered.
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Exrace

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The Telsa/EGO partnership has one in the works...

Introducing the Tesla-EGO ZT42100D Mulching Mower (Elon Edition)


42" cut (yes we measured diagonally and this monster cuts a true 42 inch wide swath)
Dual Brushless Motors
Triple No Sharpen Katana Double Blades (made from NASA ultra hard steel...thanks Elon)
Ultra Light aluminum mower deck and frame
Super Vac Mode (be careful...can pull small gophers out of the ground)
Zero Turn with autopilot (Beta...keep hands on controls at all times)
100KW battery pack (run time unlimited so far)
Optional ludicrous mode (when you are in a big hurry to mow your yard)
120-240volt Dual Voltage 100amp Quick Charger (Charges in less then 30 minutes)
Optional Navigation with BOSE 250w 12 Speaker Sound System
And yes...this baby has headlights.

The mower comes standard with the side discharge shoot and optional bailing attachment for the mulching rows this leaves behind when you cut more than 2/3rds of the length of your grass.
The bailing option comes in handy when your away on vacation for a month in the middle of the wettest summer in recent history. (You can afford to be away for 1 month with the retail price tag on this mower)

The battery is shipped in a separate box so be sure to get the shipper to look for the battery in the back of the truck when they drop this baby off...if your lucky.

Best thing to announce...not sold by Home Depot!
Rumors have it that Amazon will have this available for overnight delivery with your prime membership.
Disclaimer: Battery delivery is not guaranteed to get to your destination in a timely manner. Your delivery time might vary widely.

(Edited)
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Jacob

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Funny. I wish. I want exactly this
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David Cline

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That autopilot can be a REAL headache if a truck turns right in front of you though!
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keenanj

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Great list, but I would add pole saw. A few people, including myself, would love one.
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David HD, Champion

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I would like to add an option for an EGO automated drink blender, that is "voice activated" so I can tell it what drink I want when mowing!
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I'm willing to bet that EGO will eventually do this. In time, more powerful backpack blowers, brushcutters, 30 inch and 42 inch mowers will show up as EGO starts making stuff for the pros, and eventually zero-turn mowers will show up. At around this time, I imagine, 3Ah cells will show up, and the 2.5Ah pack will be replaced with a 3Ah pack, the 5 with a 6, the 7.5 with a 9Ah. Only time will tell.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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3Ah high drain 18650 cells are already here! Lots of power tool companies are releasing 6Ah versions of their 18V battery packs that use these.

By the time we see those "next level" tools from Ego, most of the world's high capacity/high drain cordless electronics will have switched to the new 21700 cell format that both Tesla/Panasonic and Samsung have announced; an overnight jump of over 30% in capacity with little cost increase. :-)
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TheAtomTwister

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A weight increase will be notable with the use of larger cells; 21700s are longer and larger diametrically. The use of the 3Ah cells will increase the weight by little if at all... What's the capacity of these new cells? Besides, I'll just put 3.5Ah cells in my batteries. Then I turn the 7.5Ah pack into a 10.5Ah pack while barely increasing its weight.  There will eventually come a point where I'll just put in devices that draw energy directly from the EM field so I have unlimited runtime, and when that happens, I'll have no further use for lithium ion. EGO should try to make that.
(Edited)
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TheAtomTwister

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Alright guys, apparently Greenworks is working on developing a riding mower for their 82V Commercial lineup. http://greenworkscommercial.com/product/82v-32-inch-riding-mower/ . You will have to make a bigger and better one :D.
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David HD, Champion

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TAT, since your post, the link to the Greenworks Commercial 32" Riding Mower is gone.  They took this off their website, so I assume they pulled this mower from production - interesting!!!!
(Edited)
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Simon

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Ryobi juste released one, at actually a near-decent price point: 
https://www.ryobitools.com/products/details/rm480e-electric-riding-lawn-mower

(and sold at Home Depot... ouch!). 

Jennifer, should I go for it, or give EGO a little more time to bring something better (I have to admit, the number of EGO products in my garage is expanding... and love them all!). 
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Simon, keep in mind that the Ryobi uses lead-acid batteries. If Ego were to launch a competing product it would likely be powered by lithium batteries, which would likely increase the cost.

I'd love for Jennifer or Amber to prove me wrong though! I'll be in the market for a riding mower in about two years. Hint-hint! :-)
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Simon

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Good point Blue Angel! (I actually didn't know Ryobi was still on a lead-acid strategy).

But if we look at the current "somewhat calculable trend" of EGO's potential cell cost, it seems a 7.5Ah (420Watts) goes for about US$100 when purchased alongside a tool (disregarding the cost/value of the charger...). Correct me if I am wrong, but it is a 14 cells x 3 series pack (so 42 cells), currently using 2,500mAh 18650 (LG?? Samsung??.. not sure...).

Assuming Ryobi has a good power strategy (and I emphasize "assuming"... I think EGO has a better overall power strategy...), their pack would be 3.6kW (75Ah x 48V). To match this, EGO would need roughly 360 18650 cells (2,500mAh...), which is about 8.5 time the current available 7.5Ah pack. So $850 for the battery, if purchased with the tool (... and yes, retail $3,187 if bought separately... assuming a direct correlation...).

As we are already in the era of the 3,000mAh high drain cells (I would think we will start to see the 3Ah, 6Ah and 9Ah packs soon from EGO...), the number of cells could be reduced to around 300 for the same capacity, making it "maybe" more feasible for EGO cost wise.

Then, just need to add the price of the tool to this. A lead acid battery is fairly cheap, say Ryobi can "bake it" in their overall cost, maybe the tool cost can be around $2,500 :)

A whole lot of assumptions, non validated information, simple maths... and maybe a little dream on my side. Maybe I am totally wrong and the linear comparisons I make are foolish, but if I am somewhat close to the real numbers, it seems a decent riding mower for US$3,200/US$3,500 (or less :) ) is not in the impossible range...     
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Blue Angel, Champion

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The last batteries I saw disassembled used Samsung's 25R cells, a highly regarded 2500 mAh cell. Correct, the 7.5Ah has a 3P14S cell structure.

I like your math, except the bit about the bare battery cost... but that's out of your control! :-)

High drain 3000 mAh cells are available now, but for a riding mower application where the battery would deplete over a much longer time, like two hours, a shift towards high capacity cells could be implemented.

Ego's current tools deplete batteries in anywhere from 10-85 minutes. Swapping the 10 minute minimum for a 60 minute minimum changes the scope of the application dramatically. A 3.6 kWh battery could use much lower performance (and cheaper) battery cells for a given level of mowing performance.

I'd think a high performance lithium powered riding mower with Ego quality could easily be less than $3000 US, batteries included, especially given the greatly diminished cost of the 25R cells since their release several years ago. That's roughly the cost of 5.5 SP mower kits with 7.5Ah batteries at the current sale price of $550 US.

I'm not sure about the impact of shipping and storing an imported riding mower, but I'd think it's fairly safe to say there's good margin left in the Ryobi.

Another issue is the HD exclusivity of both the Ego and Ryobi brands. For Ego to produce the product, HD needs to agree to sell it. The demand for the Ryobi will likely determine whether there's an opening for a competitor from Ego.
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Jacob

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All I know is I want one. Not a ryobi.

Funny thing. My next word in my keyboard after typing ryobi is

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Jacob

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Personally I say meh to the riders. I just want a walk behind, 60" wide. Contour following decks. So like 5 small ones that pivot to follow the ground.

Riders have to haul our fat butts around. Meaning a huge battery drain. That's why walk behinds are so great. Maybe one with a ride on plate capability would be nice, ZERO TURN OF COURSE WITH CASTER WHEELS. Gimme dat
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Simon

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Thinking about my own theory a bit more on my way back from work, I think I can poke holes in it myself... EGO's strategy is a platform to re-use/share batteries between their tools. To follow a similar strategy for a riding mower, it would require 7 or 8 7.5Ah pack (or 6-7 9Ah...). I'm not sure it makes sense. 1- the charger would need to be "on-board", charging the packs "outside" one by one would not be a fun experience... 2- Would anyone want 7-8 separate packs? Seems overwhelming... 3- when 300 cells are together, failure is easier to "cover" (i.e. 2-3 cell dies, the pack still function). if they are in separate packs, 2-3 dead cells have a larger more localize impact... 

So for a riding mower, EGO would need step out of the platform strategy. It becomes a "one off" tool... does this fit in the current corporate plan... 

I think I just blew my own "bubble of hope"... 
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Blue Angel, Champion

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It could be based on some form of modular pack so the mower comes with enough capacity to cut an acre or so, and if more is needed the customer just adds more modules to the battery bay. This could work with existing battery pack designs, but it would be far cheaper to come up with a newer design that was maybe 15Ah (6P14S).

Then you have to ask, would it make sense to increase the voltage? With so many cells, going to 112V or more becomes practical, electrocution hazards aside that is.
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keenanj

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Cool but expensive (I guess this is what riders cost). I think if you had an internal battery and you plugged it in like a Tesla you could make this work. However, and I guess it may just be me, it is not a tool I can use because of my properties gradient. That being said, it would be awesome if Ego joined the rider crowd as anything that gets away from gas mowers is good. My 21sp is so good that I could see an awesome product come out. I never thought a self-propelled mower that runs on batteries could be so good. Same with the blower (and I have a 1st gen). Thus, I could see this happening. Now, if we were talking chipper/shredder....
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David HD, Champion

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I have a small yard, so a "rider mower" would be an overkill for me.  That said; I still like to see EGO develop a "rider mower" and compete in this market.  I love to see how EGO come up with this new "rider mower" and the "battery" configuration - I'll bet it will be a beautiful thing !!!!!!!
(Edited)
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keenanj

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There is a place for a larger battery. I think someone posted here about a battery generator. There is a compressor, chipper etc... that could use a larger battery where you are no longer carrying or pushing the tool. If I have a hedge trimmer, there is no way I can have a 25 lb battery. But on a generator or a chipper, who cares.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Agreed. However, it will be interesting to see, as batteries get cheaper and more power dense, how large they actually need to be. Two Ego batteries can have sustained output that exceeds the power available from a standard wall plug (Peak-Power technology in the Ego snowblower), so I could see that system being very capable right now for a tool like a portable compressor.

Two Ego 7.5Ah batteries have a ton of promise, and they use cells that have been around for years. Today's 18650 cells would push that battery to 9Ah, and a revised format based on tomorrow's 20700 format cells would push well beyond that in a similar form factor.
(Edited)
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Simon

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Blue Angel, I like your thoughts on the larger pack... maybe this is the genesis of a new platform for heavier usage. Same EGO quality and power, but 112V or more and quite larger capacity. For solar panels owners, it could even become a "mini powerwall" fighter... Maybe we could start listing up ideas for this platform... 

1- Riding mower
2- Portable generator
3- Chipper/shredder
4- Multi-tool tractor (aerator attachment, dethatcher attachment, small utility trailer...) - Maybe that could all be possible alongside the riding mower though...
5- Home owner snow plow?
6- Mini-excavator?  

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