If the blowers, string trimmers, and snow blower have variable speed controls, will ego make variable speed control for the blades of the 21" mowers? I think that would solve a lot of issues, if the blade is working fine at low speeds, then you could leave it there, but if putting it on "turbo" gives you better results at the cost of battery life, at least you'd have the option. Just saying.
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4,108 Points
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Posted 3 years ago
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2,978 Points
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4,108 Points
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,968 Points
Spark, this is a good idea in my opinion, and one that's been discussed several times already. There are competitors products that offer something similar in that they have more than one operating mode, tailoring the mower for either efficiency or powerful cutting.
Gas mowers usually have a throttle to control engine speed, electric mowers could benefit as well. The tricky thing would be to market it successfully, since everyone seems to concern themselves only with how much run time a battery tool is good for. It might be tough to explain to non-technical types in a way that won't sound like the efficient modes/speeds have inferior cutting performance?
Gas mowers usually have a throttle to control engine speed, electric mowers could benefit as well. The tricky thing would be to market it successfully, since everyone seems to concern themselves only with how much run time a battery tool is good for. It might be tough to explain to non-technical types in a way that won't sound like the efficient modes/speeds have inferior cutting performance?
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2,676 Points
at some point in the near future I'd like to add one of these to my mower:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Battery-wireless-120V-30A-LCD-Voltage-Current-Watt-Power-capacity-Combo-Meter/112093355865?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D39107%26meid%3De43d6108d94041d9bb08b190cf67a3b6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D252581307008
to better see what it does when it ramps the speed up after beeing loaded down in heavy grass.
I think EGO is fighting heat soaking the motor under heavy loads and that's why they chose the motor controller programming that they did.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Battery-wireless-120V-30A-LCD-Voltage-Current-Watt-Power-capacity-Combo-Meter/112093355865?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D39107%26meid%3De43d6108d94041d9bb08b190cf67a3b6%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D252581307008
to better see what it does when it ramps the speed up after beeing loaded down in heavy grass.
I think EGO is fighting heat soaking the motor under heavy loads and that's why they chose the motor controller programming that they did.
(Edited)
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4,286 Points
No need for variable speed on mowers. Gas mowers are now constant speed, also..
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2,676 Points
the honda mower i came from had a throttle control. (not that i used it on anything but full speed)
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5,476 Points
My Sears Craftsman mower that i got 13 years ago doesn't have a throttle control. it wasn't the cheapest or the most expensive unit, but works just fine. i know if i push it through thick grass it will stall. so i work to what the mower dictates
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2,676 Points
OP is a commercial user and has different needs. EGO is not, in my opinion, at this time pursuing these commercial users in any sort of capacity.
https://www.facebook.com/spark.lawns
https://www.facebook.com/spark.lawns
(Edited)
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4,108 Points
My issue is not necessarily with the need to run at full throttle all the time. I have been using the ego mowers for months now and generally work fine at their normal speeds, especially during this unusually dry summer we just had. The issue is mostly on the occasional lawn, that due to our recommendations, is excessively thick and full. Even at the appropriate height setting which means we do not cut more than 1/3 of the blade height, the slower rpms do leave behind a constant handful of blades uncut, usually resulting in a second pass of each area to meet our standards. We have even gone as far as carrying a sharpening stone attached to a cordless drill in order to sharpen the blades after every use, still seeing the same issues from time to time. Passing over a yard twice to make up for this issue means using 50% more battery and time that could of been avoided.
The fact that the ego rpms are throttled down to conserve energy and meet restrictions is fine, but it is in fact throttled down. We can tell because once we hit an excessively high patch or leaf pile it spins up to a higher rpm, although if it does that ONLY when it senses higher resistance, it leaves somewhat uneven cuts. Giving the option, at least to me, to run at a higher, already pre determined, rpm when i see it is needed, and giving up 30 or 40% battery life, would definitely be a benefit over going a lawn twice. That being said we love the ego machines and engineering that has gone into them. As with any new machine design there will be flaws, this post was just a way to address an issue we see day to day with ours that can hopefully be corrected, not to bash ego in any way.
The fact that the ego rpms are throttled down to conserve energy and meet restrictions is fine, but it is in fact throttled down. We can tell because once we hit an excessively high patch or leaf pile it spins up to a higher rpm, although if it does that ONLY when it senses higher resistance, it leaves somewhat uneven cuts. Giving the option, at least to me, to run at a higher, already pre determined, rpm when i see it is needed, and giving up 30 or 40% battery life, would definitely be a benefit over going a lawn twice. That being said we love the ego machines and engineering that has gone into them. As with any new machine design there will be flaws, this post was just a way to address an issue we see day to day with ours that can hopefully be corrected, not to bash ego in any way.
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65,000 Points
I agree totally. Give the user the control. Its a dc motor. Give control on ALL products to the user chainsaw included.
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2,676 Points
You are more then welcome too hot rod your tools they are not preventing you from doing that.
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4,108 Points
My 5 year warranty says otherwise lol
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65,000 Points
Yup. It sure does
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5,476 Points
The warranty is so good as the tools have been setup with a generous safety factor for wear. If you run them at the upper edge then they will break faster (not last as long).
Remember that companies give warranties based on the projection of cost vs usage. For example: I can buy a Citizen watch in the uk for less than the exact same watch here in Canada. But the UK watch only has a 1 year warranty vs a 5 year here. The cost of that warranty is baked into the price. If I feel it likely that the watch will break within the 2nd-5th year then I am better off to buy in Canada.
This said, EGO can offer a 5 year warranty as they know that the lawnmower is not likely to fail and need repair in that period. I know if you read here, you would think that every unit has had a problem, but we just see the ones that do, and not the thousands of other users that have no issue and are really happy.
If you are looking to supe up the mower, either the price will need to go up to offset the increased risk of failure from running it that way, or the warranty will drop to 90 days to catch the shipped DOA units and you are on your own from that point onwards.
Remember that companies give warranties based on the projection of cost vs usage. For example: I can buy a Citizen watch in the uk for less than the exact same watch here in Canada. But the UK watch only has a 1 year warranty vs a 5 year here. The cost of that warranty is baked into the price. If I feel it likely that the watch will break within the 2nd-5th year then I am better off to buy in Canada.
This said, EGO can offer a 5 year warranty as they know that the lawnmower is not likely to fail and need repair in that period. I know if you read here, you would think that every unit has had a problem, but we just see the ones that do, and not the thousands of other users that have no issue and are really happy.
If you are looking to supe up the mower, either the price will need to go up to offset the increased risk of failure from running it that way, or the warranty will drop to 90 days to catch the shipped DOA units and you are on your own from that point onwards.
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13,128 Points
Blue, I'm not sure I agree with the part about difficult marketing. A mower with the cutting power and mulching power of gas would draw much attention. The professionals would like to have adjustable power right on the handle. Have it be a dial much like that on the blower.
Yes, as far as how things can go wrong during warranty period goes, I'd just make a more expensive , more rugged, more powerful model built for much heavier use. That isn't something suited for the homeowner, but it is for the pro. I am unaware of any plans that you have for creating products oriented for the professional, but if you do make such plans, I would be a buyer for sure.
Yes, as far as how things can go wrong during warranty period goes, I'd just make a more expensive , more rugged, more powerful model built for much heavier use. That isn't something suited for the homeowner, but it is for the pro. I am unaware of any plans that you have for creating products oriented for the professional, but if you do make such plans, I would be a buyer for sure.
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13,128 Points
Blue, I'm not sure I agree with the part about difficult marketing. A mower with the cutting power and mulching power of gas would draw much attention. The professionals would like to have adjustable power right on the handle. Have it be a dial much like that on the blower.
Yes, as far as how things can go wrong during warranty period goes, I'd just make a more expensive , more rugged, more powerful model built for much heavier use. That isn't something suited for the homeowner, but it is for the pro. I am unaware of any plans that you have for creating products oriented for the professional, but if you do make such plans, I would be a buyer for sure.
Yes, as far as how things can go wrong during warranty period goes, I'd just make a more expensive , more rugged, more powerful model built for much heavier use. That isn't something suited for the homeowner, but it is for the pro. I am unaware of any plans that you have for creating products oriented for the professional, but if you do make such plans, I would be a buyer for sure.
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5,476 Points
I am sure that a more sturdy and 'pro' developed model could be made. where the problem comes in is would you sell enough to justify the cost to build.
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4,108 Points
Give it another two years for some more lithium battery advancements, gas powered machines will be a thing of the past....I just hope Ego keeps developing to stay ahead of the curve.
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,968 Points
TAT, by difficult marketing I mean, it would mean explaining why you need to choose between run time and performance. In an ideal world you just have a product that works, and the user doesn't need to understand anything... turn the key and it goes.
That's the marketing team's dream anyway. People who understand how things work know better. :-)
That's the marketing team's dream anyway. People who understand how things work know better. :-)
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13,128 Points
True, but I was thinking about how some people complain about not having enough power or having electric mowers that stall easily. A lot of people who have owned electric mowers have had that problem, that is why I'm saying that the marketing might not be so difficult. You are however correct, I imagine, with people who have not owned underpowered electric mowers.
Matt, you are right as far as many professionals in the United States goes. Husqvarna has more advanced and powerful battery powered equipment for sale in the UK, so does Bosch with their 36V heatsinking, weatherproof batteries, to my knowledge, that stuff is only available in the UK. In time, the market for such tools will expand as the technology progresses as Spark Lawns is suggesting it would.
Matt, you are right as far as many professionals in the United States goes. Husqvarna has more advanced and powerful battery powered equipment for sale in the UK, so does Bosch with their 36V heatsinking, weatherproof batteries, to my knowledge, that stuff is only available in the UK. In time, the market for such tools will expand as the technology progresses as Spark Lawns is suggesting it would.
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4,108 Points
While i understand the need for economy and heat dissipation.... If the back back blower i use can run on turbo all day and handle it I'm sure the mower can. Worse case scenario i don't see how a micro turbine can't be added in the motor housing to increase air flow around the housing. There's a way to do everything...but if roi isn't profitable it won't be done, especially if the already expensive mower gets more expensive. Then again whose to say i wouldn't pay the same for a walk behind mower with throttle control as i do for the self propelled model....
(Edited)
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,948 Points
I somehow doubt heat is the issue, as Dominic49 suggests. Extending battery life is very likely the only reason for the load-based variable speed.
The 20" mower is a constant speed unit and has no overheating issues.
The 20" mower is a constant speed unit and has no overheating issues.
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2,676 Points
IIRC the 20" mower is constant speed without ramping. However, it is programmed at a level that would not cause it to overheat under normal circumstances.
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,948 Points
I get the impression the 21" mowers are significantly more powerful than the 20", and I have yet to hear of someone having overload issues with one. I've seen a few videos where people have chewed through some pretty crazy stuff and the 21" just keeps on chugging.
One of these videos was just put out yesterday by Oz Tool Talk. Check out what he puts the mower through... only when the battery is almost dead is he able to get it to shut down, and that's with the SP on full speed cutting tall field grass in mulching mode!
https://youtu.be/KBzGmVZ-ns8
This certainly doesn't seem like a mower with thermal issues.
One of these videos was just put out yesterday by Oz Tool Talk. Check out what he puts the mower through... only when the battery is almost dead is he able to get it to shut down, and that's with the SP on full speed cutting tall field grass in mulching mode!
https://youtu.be/KBzGmVZ-ns8
This certainly doesn't seem like a mower with thermal issues.
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26,632 Points
The 20" mower has a mode where by when it detects additional load, it spins up faster (within a second), then ramps back down slower (within 3-5 seconds).
The only technical hurdle with a variable speed on the mower, as well as with running it at high speed for a continuous amount of time is that the motor is BRUSHED versus all the other tools which are BRUSHLESS. You'll notice that the motor has no heat sink fins in the last picture below; which likely would not help (except for passive cooling) since there isn't any air flow; which is another significant difference to the hand held tools which have their motors open to ambient air.
The only technical hurdle with a variable speed on the mower, as well as with running it at high speed for a continuous amount of time is that the motor is BRUSHED versus all the other tools which are BRUSHLESS. You'll notice that the motor has no heat sink fins in the last picture below; which likely would not help (except for passive cooling) since there isn't any air flow; which is another significant difference to the hand held tools which have their motors open to ambient air.
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,948 Points
Later 20" mowers and all 21" mowers have a fan integrated into the blade mount. I believe the main purpose of this fan was to cover the exposed motor windings since people were concerned about dust and debris or moisture entering into the motor from beneath:
There is, however, airflow through the motor exhausting out through the bottom holes, even on the 20" mowers without the fan. With the blade spinning, air is moving in a circular motion under the mower deck. This circular motion creates a low pressure area in the middle where the mower vents are, drawing air out through the motor.
It's the same phenomenon that creates the storm surge at the eye of a hurricane. All of that air mass rotating around the eye drops the atmospheric pressure and the local water level rises.
After two and a half seasons of mowing, the lower armature windings of my 20" mower, visible through the lower vents, are still clean with no sign of dirt or grass clipping debris. :-)
I have mechanically overloaded my 20" mower walking fast when the grass was too thick, but I've never managed a thermal overload on the mower or battery.
Actually, that brings up a good question: Since you've had your mower apart, do you see any temperature sensors on the motor itself?
There is, however, airflow through the motor exhausting out through the bottom holes, even on the 20" mowers without the fan. With the blade spinning, air is moving in a circular motion under the mower deck. This circular motion creates a low pressure area in the middle where the mower vents are, drawing air out through the motor.
It's the same phenomenon that creates the storm surge at the eye of a hurricane. All of that air mass rotating around the eye drops the atmospheric pressure and the local water level rises.
After two and a half seasons of mowing, the lower armature windings of my 20" mower, visible through the lower vents, are still clean with no sign of dirt or grass clipping debris. :-)
I have mechanically overloaded my 20" mower walking fast when the grass was too thick, but I've never managed a thermal overload on the mower or battery.
Actually, that brings up a good question: Since you've had your mower apart, do you see any temperature sensors on the motor itself?
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2,676 Points
no temp sensor on the 20 inch mower motor. (or the motor on the 480cfm blower for that matter)
If I can ever get all the dang RTV off the motor controller I'll have a better Idea of what is going on behind the scenes. (I haven't been putting in a ton of effort on it though just fiddle with it every now and then.)
If I can ever get all the dang RTV off the motor controller I'll have a better Idea of what is going on behind the scenes. (I haven't been putting in a ton of effort on it though just fiddle with it every now and then.)
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,948 Points
If it's anything like the potting on the BMS board in the batteries, good luck! :-)
It may not look it, but that was a lot of work! ;-)
It may not look it, but that was a lot of work! ;-)
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26,632 Points
No external temp sensor on the motor, but the control module (black box hanging from the wire harness) does sit right on top of the motor, so it is close enough in proximity to the motor case that it could detect an over heating condition. Or the control module could detect increase current flow, and shut down based on probably over heating being forth coming.
(Edited)
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90 Points
Has anyone had any success forcing it to high power mode manually? I would love to have this ability to be able to get through my neglected yard.
On a side note, does anyone know if the 2 battery mower is actually a higher power motor or just longer runtime?
I don't want to go back to gas, but thick Bermuda is trouble for these things.
On a side note, does anyone know if the 2 battery mower is actually a higher power motor or just longer runtime?
I don't want to go back to gas, but thick Bermuda is trouble for these things.
szwoopp, Champion
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99,440 Points
Have not seen anything on the ability to force high power mode - other than the desire by many.
The LM2142 dual battery mower definitely has more power in addition to longer run time.
https://community.egopowerplus.com/ego/topics/the-21-lm2142sp-is-a-game-changer-mulching-and-speed-p...
https://community.egopowerplus.com/ego/topics/lm2102sp-or-lm2142sp?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5B...
https://community.egopowerplus.com/ego/topics/new-video-on-dual-battery-mower-excellent-video?topic-...
The LM2142 dual battery mower definitely has more power in addition to longer run time.
https://community.egopowerplus.com/ego/topics/the-21-lm2142sp-is-a-game-changer-mulching-and-speed-p...
https://community.egopowerplus.com/ego/topics/lm2102sp-or-lm2142sp?topic-reply-list%5Bsettings%5D%5B...
https://community.egopowerplus.com/ego/topics/new-video-on-dual-battery-mower-excellent-video?topic-...
(Edited)
Dominic49
keenanj