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I have found that if you mow your yard in a square pattern instead of straight back and forth rows, you can eliminate the look of rows of poorly mulched clippings left behind along the left side of your 21" mower. Starting on the outside edge of your yard with the left side of the mower facing the inside of the square. Keep going in a square until you finish in the middle of your yard. As you cut, just overlap a couple inches on the right side so it will recut the clippings that came from the left side of the mower on the previous pass. When your done you won't see any rows of clippings left behind. It worked for me. This tip is just a work around and is not a cure for this mowers poor mulching ability and lack of suction/lift.
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1,092 Points
- still undecided
Posted 4 years ago
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65,000 Points
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862 Points
Is this a peculiarity of the 21"? I don't experience that with the 20".
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6,194 Points
Exactly...the 20" mulch beautifully.
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9,072 Points
I'm going to have to part company there with you, Steve. The 20" will do the same under pressure of taller thicker grass.
I'm sure the mowers have well and blade design in common. Either the grass is not being held up in the well long enough to be cut as many times as needed by the blade or the well design isn't allowing the grass to be held in it long enough.
(Edited)
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,968 Points
Rob, I've noticed that my 20"'will indeed leave clippings on the lawn, but I have to push it to near the point of overload in thicker grass for it to do so. Under more normal cutting conditions where the mower is not struggling to keep up, it does a rather good job.
Does this relate to your experience? Perhaps your grass is much thicker than mine, or for some reason is harder to cut? Maybe it grows more than mine between mowings? As far as I know my lawn is mainly Kentucky Bluegrass and some sort of Fescue, and up until this year I was cutting it on setting 3, which is 2.4" on the 20" if I remember right.
Does this relate to your experience? Perhaps your grass is much thicker than mine, or for some reason is harder to cut? Maybe it grows more than mine between mowings? As far as I know my lawn is mainly Kentucky Bluegrass and some sort of Fescue, and up until this year I was cutting it on setting 3, which is 2.4" on the 20" if I remember right.
(Edited)
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9,072 Points
My lawn is tall fescue and I cut it at the highest setting on the 20" mower. I try to cut it twice a week, the 20" mower does very well but if I have to let it go a full week or more because of rain, it will definitely leave the clippings.
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,968 Points
Gotcha! So it sounds like our experiences aren't too different then.
Since going on a serious fertilizer and overseeding plan, my lawn is finally starting to look good... I've never been able to say that before! I've let it grow taller now that the grass is much stronger and healthier, and I just cut it for the first time on setting 5!
I'm quite excited about it really, it's looking pretty good. I tried cutting it on setting 4 a few times last year and it just wasn't growing tall or strong enough to look good.
After a few cuts at this height I'll get a better feeling for how well the mower does. Being the first time cut at this height I don't think it was actually as thick as it will likely be next time. Had lots of rain on Sunday, things are looking up! :-)
Since going on a serious fertilizer and overseeding plan, my lawn is finally starting to look good... I've never been able to say that before! I've let it grow taller now that the grass is much stronger and healthier, and I just cut it for the first time on setting 5!
I'm quite excited about it really, it's looking pretty good. I tried cutting it on setting 4 a few times last year and it just wasn't growing tall or strong enough to look good.
After a few cuts at this height I'll get a better feeling for how well the mower does. Being the first time cut at this height I don't think it was actually as thick as it will likely be next time. Had lots of rain on Sunday, things are looking up! :-)
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37,182 Points
I agree, with my 20" I absolutely couldn't go more than 5 days between cuts during peak growing season in May/June, and had much less difficulty if I cut it after only 3-4 days.
I part with others in that my troubles were not so much poor mulching as constant overload shutoffs. Of course with all the blade starting, bogging down, and stopping when overload protection kicked in, mulching was nearly non-existent. More importantly, the 30-45 minute task of mowing would take 2-3 hours EXTRA.
I am so thrilled that the 21" is virtually impossible to overload and my grass is getting cleanly cut that the size and distribution of clippings and overall mulching quality is more of an afterthought to me.
The 21" might not be perfect, but it's infinitely better than the 20" in thick Bermuda grass.
I part with others in that my troubles were not so much poor mulching as constant overload shutoffs. Of course with all the blade starting, bogging down, and stopping when overload protection kicked in, mulching was nearly non-existent. More importantly, the 30-45 minute task of mowing would take 2-3 hours EXTRA.
I am so thrilled that the 21" is virtually impossible to overload and my grass is getting cleanly cut that the size and distribution of clippings and overall mulching quality is more of an afterthought to me.
The 21" might not be perfect, but it's infinitely better than the 20" in thick Bermuda grass.
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6,194 Points
My successful mulching with the 20" mower is based on the grass being cut on a regular weekly bases. If it is too overgrown mulching performance would suffer and bagging is required. I don't recall the grass ever looking like it was only cut once and a line of cuttings happening on the left side with the 20".
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2,250 Points
David: Is that 21" the push or SP? I have Bermuda grass and I'm unable to decide between the two. My yard is fairly flat and not that large so I don't think I would ever use the SP functionality. I can cut it in about 20-25 min with one pass of the Reel (although I almost always struggle through two passes). I'm considering the SP only because of the stronger motor, as I understand it.
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2,250 Points
David: Is that 21" the push or SP? I have Bermuda grass and I'm unable to decide between the two. My yard is fairly flat and not that large so I don't think I would ever use the SP functionality. I can cut it in about 20-25 min with one pass of the Reel (although I almost always struggle through two passes). I'm considering the SP only because of the stronger motor, as I understand it.
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1,092 Points
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,988 Points
Although this issue does exist for some owners, I do feel the need to point out not only the stellar reviews these mowers have received by popular channels (we're all aware), but also the impressive reviews posted by customers on Home Depot's website.
As of now, the reviews for the Self Propelled model, both as a kit and bare tool:
And for the push model, both in kit and bare tool form:
I'm not trying to downplay the issue, just trying to keep things in perspective... well over 95% of reviewers would recommend these mowers.
As of now, the reviews for the Self Propelled model, both as a kit and bare tool:
And for the push model, both in kit and bare tool form:
I'm not trying to downplay the issue, just trying to keep things in perspective... well over 95% of reviewers would recommend these mowers.
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65,000 Points
Cant argue those numbers. Pretty amazing if you ask me.
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,988 Points
I can't remember the last time I was researching something and came across a product with such high reviews...
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37,182 Points
Even if you exclude the Seeds reviews, these are very impressive numbers. Keep in mind that a huge percentage of people with an issue will post negative reviews to vent, but far less people with a positive experience take the time to come back and write a review.
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1,092 Points
I still don't know why you champions are talking about percentage of positive reviews in this thread. It has nothing to do with coming up with a solution or idea for helping the people that are experiencing a problem.
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37,182 Points
Because people inevitably come here and check things out before deciding whether or not to buy.
The square cutting pattern is actually recommended as healthier for your lawn, or at very least varying the pattern or mowing direction. And a great solution for the 2-5% having issues with mulching.
The square cutting pattern is actually recommended as healthier for your lawn, or at very least varying the pattern or mowing direction. And a great solution for the 2-5% having issues with mulching.
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9,072 Points
Gerry, it's because they are Champions. That's just what they do. They usually 'Champion' the product. Not that they don't see the problem but they tend to acknowledge it and leave it at that.
Me, I am more interested in the problems being fixed....a lot faster than Ego tends to want to.
Blue, I love you Buddy...but those 'popular channels' that do reviews have somewhat let us down on this one.
How does the saying go? All politics are local. I couldn't care less what the general experience is if it doesn't work for me.
Me, I am more interested in the problems being fixed....a lot faster than Ego tends to want to.
Blue, I love you Buddy...but those 'popular channels' that do reviews have somewhat let us down on this one.
How does the saying go? All politics are local. I couldn't care less what the general experience is if it doesn't work for me.
(Edited)
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1,092 Points
Since, according to you guys (DC, BA) only 2-5% of these mowers have this mulching issue, do you recommend that I return mine back to HD and exchange it for a new one? Did I just get a lemon? Would I then have a 95-98% chance that a new one would mulch very well and be absolutely flawless like yours is (DC)?
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65,000 Points
Always nice to hear positive comments Rob. Keep in mind, we get nothing in return for helping out on this forum. Perhapse it's just a waste of our time.
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9,072 Points
Gerry, stop posting that you have an issue just to vent. You know that's not liked around these parts.
/sarcasm off
LoL
/sarcasm off
LoL
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9,072 Points
Yeah Jacob,
I don't think you get anything back but some of the champs are very dismissive of the issues people have with equipment that they paid good money for.
Again...Some...not all. You can pick it up easily in their posts. I won't mention any names.
I think everyone would love to post on here how great their Ego products are. Believe it or not, I would love to do so and I have.
When there is a problem that's not being addressed, it's just wrong whether it's 1 person having it or 10,000. It's still a problem.
I don't think you get anything back but some of the champs are very dismissive of the issues people have with equipment that they paid good money for.
Again...Some...not all. You can pick it up easily in their posts. I won't mention any names.
I think everyone would love to post on here how great their Ego products are. Believe it or not, I would love to do so and I have.
When there is a problem that's not being addressed, it's just wrong whether it's 1 person having it or 10,000. It's still a problem.
(Edited)
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,988 Points
Gerry, I honestly don't know if exchanging for a new one is worth a try or not.
In a case like this it's impossible to tell how widespread the issue actually is. There's a chance that some people have the issue and don't realize it, or don't care, or simply don't have a lawn thick enough to cause it. I can tell you, based on the way the average person in my neighborhood (doesn't) care for their lawn, most of them would likely give any battery mower a 5 star review simply because it's more convenient than what they were using before. The less effort involved in "caring" for their property the better!
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know if there's a variation in the mowers themselves, or whether the issue is dependent on some blend of subjectivity and mowing conditions... I tend to think the latter is more likely. I doubt the CR report was covering anything up, they likely just didn't have conditions that demonstrated the problem.
It would be VERY interesting if two 21"'mower owners, one with the issue and one without, could trade mowers and see if the issue follows the mower or stays with the environment.
In a case like this it's impossible to tell how widespread the issue actually is. There's a chance that some people have the issue and don't realize it, or don't care, or simply don't have a lawn thick enough to cause it. I can tell you, based on the way the average person in my neighborhood (doesn't) care for their lawn, most of them would likely give any battery mower a 5 star review simply because it's more convenient than what they were using before. The less effort involved in "caring" for their property the better!
I guess what I'm saying is, I don't know if there's a variation in the mowers themselves, or whether the issue is dependent on some blend of subjectivity and mowing conditions... I tend to think the latter is more likely. I doubt the CR report was covering anything up, they likely just didn't have conditions that demonstrated the problem.
It would be VERY interesting if two 21"'mower owners, one with the issue and one without, could trade mowers and see if the issue follows the mower or stays with the environment.
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,988 Points
Building on what Rob said regarding Champions, it's not easy sometimes to keep a positive and constructive conversation going without sounding like a mindless cheerleader. I certainly enjoy taking part here and I wouldn't do it if that were not the case.
I know that trying to put a positive spin on a thread focusing on an issue is not really helping solve the problem, I apologize for that. Perhaps the best thing to do would have been to simply start a new thread about the HD reviews? Looking back it does somewhat appear to be a hijack of the topic.
Anyway, I do try to feed a constructive environment, and Gerry's original post was indeed very constructive.
I know that trying to put a positive spin on a thread focusing on an issue is not really helping solve the problem, I apologize for that. Perhaps the best thing to do would have been to simply start a new thread about the HD reviews? Looking back it does somewhat appear to be a hijack of the topic.
Anyway, I do try to feed a constructive environment, and Gerry's original post was indeed very constructive.
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37,182 Points
Exchanging the mower would be a very informative data point if the new mower performed better. However the only contributor here that has tried two different mowers, Steve, saw similar performance from both.
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506 Points
I would be very surprised if any two mowers produced different results. My understanding is that the motor is computer controlled so the speed of rotation is likely very close across all mowers. And the shape of the blades is likely within a few thousandth's of an inch.
I suspect that the difference is in the type of grass. My lawn is a variety of fescue with very fine blades. Does it make sense that thin blades of grass require move suction to pick up because individual blades of grass have less surface area?
I suspect that the difference is in the type of grass. My lawn is a variety of fescue with very fine blades. Does it make sense that thin blades of grass require move suction to pick up because individual blades of grass have less surface area?
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,988 Points
My gut feeling is the same, AJ, that it's more of an environment thing than a mower-to-mower variation.
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65,000 Points
Thats not always true. My 20" mower, when the deck clogs up, does leave clippings. Mow at night with it sometime. You will see the clippings clump up. But they are shredded.
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37,182 Points
Yeah, when my 20" would bog down and overload, not only would I have a dozen unplanned 10 minute breaks, but my yard would have lines of clippings, clumps of grass everywhere, uncut spots, the works.
The 21" has NONE of these overload issues. Absolutely flawless.
The 21" has NONE of these overload issues. Absolutely flawless.
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1,092 Points
Wow, It sounds like the 20" had worse problems than my 21". I have only used my 21" 4 times and have never had it bog down or overload yet.
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862 Points
I've only mowed with my 20" a few times. The first time the yard had 2 weeks growth and the mower went right through it with no problem. No bogging down or overload indications. The wife couldn't believe it.
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,968 Points
My 20" is far more powerful than the corded Black & Decker we had before. I can overload it on thicker sections, but overall it does very well.
The only time I see any issue with mulching is when pushing it into overload, but that takes very thick grass at a brisk walking pace on cut height 3 (2.4").
The only time I see any issue with mulching is when pushing it into overload, but that takes very thick grass at a brisk walking pace on cut height 3 (2.4").
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1,092 Points
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65,000 Points
Sorry. We went off on a tangent there. Your problems are extremely important. I just wish i had a 21" mower so I could experience the same issues. I really wish I had some suggestions. All i know, is that my 20" mower has this issue when the bottom of the deck gets saturated with clippings.
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21,706 Points
My 21SP doesn't mulch worth a darn--so bad that I've switched to bagging. Keep in mind that's mowing less than an 1-1/2" off of the grass (leaving the grass cut to 2"), and DRY. (And there is no buildup on the deck) It doesn't recut the grass. It cuts the grass ONCE. I don't consider that "mulching" by any stretch of the imagination. Positive reviews up the wazoo have nothing to do with the problem of poor mulching performance. I still love the mower but let's not sweep this issue under the rug with talk of great ratings, please. That is all irrelevant.
(Edited)
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37,182 Points
Unless you are about to go write a glowing review of your mower then the ratings ARE relevant for understanding how widespread this issue is. Especially for anyone who may be reading this before purchasing and worrying that the mower won't even be able to cut their grass. 95% chance that won't be the case. But that's not dismissive of the issues some people are having. Just keeping things in perspective.
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21,706 Points
If I had a car that wouldn't start, do you think I'd really care that it has "glowing" reviews? Of course not. I'd want to know how to get it started. Everything else about the car is irrelevant at that point, same as discussions not related to getting the car started. Poor mulching is something that's been discussed on this board, on more than one thread. I experience it too. Ergo, it's a real problem for me, as well as all the others who experience it. I can't imagine that any of those individuals want to get into a discussion about the other merits of the mower. Save that for another thread, please.
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37,182 Points
Dave, no one is making light of the mulching issue or being dismissive of it.
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1,092 Points
Jacob, My question was really intended for BA. Unfortunately my 21" Non-SP and several other people here have the mulching issue with a clean underdeck and cutting dry grass. However cutting in the square pattern described above it will virtually eliminate the line of clippings on the left side. If you are bagging this mower works very well.
Since you have the 20" mower you don't need to worry about this issue at all.
Since you have the 20" mower you don't need to worry about this issue at all.
Blue Angel, Champion
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179,968 Points
Gerry, as I said, I'm definitely not dismissing the issue or trying to sweep it under the carpet, just trying to keep things in perspective (as DC said).
There has been a lot of negativity on these pages lately about the 21" mulching issue. Lots of people researching a new mower purchase will undoubtedly come across these conversations. That's fine, it's a public forum, but if seemingly everyone here is bashing the mower for the mulching issue it certainly gives the impression a potential buyer would not be happy with it.
Is the 21"'mower perfect? I certainly doubt it, and there seems to be a pretty good case building that demonstrates some percentage of buyers have an issue with mulching performance. But numbers don't lie and it would seem that with 4.7-4.8 overall ratings after hundreds of reviews on HD from real users, the vast majority of people are indeed very satisfied with their mowers.
That's all I'm saying. :-)
Your tip is likely very useful, and I was thinking something similar the other day. I usually overlap slightly when I cut. I was wondering if for people with smaller yards who don't turn the mower around but cut one pass forward and one pass backward, if overlapping slightly and working right to left would help. Not exactly what you proposed, but something similar.
There has been a lot of negativity on these pages lately about the 21" mulching issue. Lots of people researching a new mower purchase will undoubtedly come across these conversations. That's fine, it's a public forum, but if seemingly everyone here is bashing the mower for the mulching issue it certainly gives the impression a potential buyer would not be happy with it.
Is the 21"'mower perfect? I certainly doubt it, and there seems to be a pretty good case building that demonstrates some percentage of buyers have an issue with mulching performance. But numbers don't lie and it would seem that with 4.7-4.8 overall ratings after hundreds of reviews on HD from real users, the vast majority of people are indeed very satisfied with their mowers.
That's all I'm saying. :-)
Your tip is likely very useful, and I was thinking something similar the other day. I usually overlap slightly when I cut. I was wondering if for people with smaller yards who don't turn the mower around but cut one pass forward and one pass backward, if overlapping slightly and working right to left would help. Not exactly what you proposed, but something similar.
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506 Points
I read a lot of positive reviews of this mower. I don't doubt that it is the best cordless electric lawn mower available. However, I very seldom bag, so good mulching is important to me. If the reviews had mentioned issues with mulching I probably would have bought a gas powered Honda, which in the end will save both me and EGO time and money if I decide to return the EGO.
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65,000 Points
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8,606 Points
I would be curious if the underside of the deck has something that is disturbing air flow. Maybe the insert for the mulching option? I have the 21 SP on the way and will defiantly be troubleshooting this myself.
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21,706 Points
Although some others on this board have argued the point, I still contend that a mower with dual blades is inherently better at mulching. My Honda Harmony mower had two blades and it pulverized the grass into very tiny bits. The Ego 21SP cuts each blade just one time--hardly "mulching", eh?
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8,606 Points
I have a 20 year old Honda with a single blade that mulches well...wonder if the blade will fit the Ego? Have to give up on the old girl as the steel deck is slowing returning to the raw materials the deck was made out of...rusting away. Engine is still perfect! :)
(Edited)
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37,182 Points
I've had a Honda that could be retrofitted with a dual blade and one that couldn't but I tried to anyway. Two blades aren't better than one if the deck isn't designed for dual blades.
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21,706 Points
I guess part of the reason my Honda Harmony easily sold for $200 after roughly 14 years of use, was that the deck was a super-tough plastic, which goes by the trade name Xenoy. No dings are cracks and it was very slippery so grass was easily to rinse off of the underside when the occasion arose.
(Edited)
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692 Points
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1,092 Points
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692 Points
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1,092 Points
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8,606 Points
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692 Points
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250 Points
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1,436 Points
AJ
That makes me think the the problem is that the clippings left on the left of the mower are escaping before they can be mulched. And that makes me think that a little more lift would keep them under the deck for a few blade rotations and the lines of clippings would cease to appear.
Either a higher lift blade, or slightly higher RPM's should do the trick. I'd sure like to try.
Steve Valdes
Gerry Litvin
Blue Angel, Champion
Gerry Litvin
Jennifer VandeWater, Community Manager
Rob
Thank you for the info as to why we can't get the high lift blade here and that it wouldnt solve our lift issues anyhow.
This info would have been good to have when you made your original response to the items being found some time back.
I know Ego doesn't make inferior products but I still insist that this problem should have been picked up in Quality assurance and during testing for reviews.
Jennifer VandeWater, Community Manager
Rob
Dave .
Blue Angel, Champion
You can read more at this link from Troy-Bilt:
http://www.troybilt.com/webapp/wcs/st...
Or at this link from MTD:
http://www.mtdparts.com/equipment/mtd...
I would assume Ego is following the same design theme based on what Jen has told us so far.
EDIT: Dave, sorry to jump in when your question was directed to Jen, but I felt I could link to some useful and factual information. Jen can add to this or correct it if Ego's internal info is different from what I posted. :-)
Jennifer VandeWater, Community Manager