Help with batteries

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  • Updated 2 years ago
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Hi all. We just spent about 3000 $ on EGO products. I can say
everything , just one missing (duo to no stock) to be all line. It was more
like a gift for my husband, he was frustrated with his old tools. I want to
make him happy and, I was able to do it. He was so happy with all of the tools,he even convinced 2 of his buddy to buy the movers. All this until last weekwhen we got the snow blower, in fact when we got the two 7.5Ah batteries whichwas shipped separately.  He didn’t seeit, even if he registered all and could see it. When he called me in the garage to show me his new "toy" I saw right away that the two 7.5AH batteries are made in 2014. Wrong thing, very wrong. He wasn't so mad at that time, he said he will call EGO and they will solve this with a replacement. What he did but, surprise, EGO repr. talked with him like with someone who knowns nothing about and easily can be "shot off" with you have "3 Years of warranty so if something wrong in this time we replace it.." He was very surprised and he didn't understand how was rejected the replacement. Especially how was never used, EGO must just clean the registration on them. I wanna mention that he knowns what a battery means, what's the life and charge/discharge mean and also what storage conditions need to be and what means TIME for a lithium cell. He is working in the same field.. He tried to convince the guy but no chance..and how he is a cool guy didn't want to arguing to hard or yell. Bad was done, he decides to do a complet return for all EGO bought, unless this two batteries will be replaced. Now he is in business trip for next 10 days, I don't know what he want to do after he's back, to call EGO again or HD or something else. Couldn't talk with him about this before he left. I wrote you without his knowledge, to see what you guys say, saw some of you are good about electronics and batteries. Should I convince him to not go on with his decision or push him to talk with EGO again, or I don't know. Any advice is welcome. Thank for your help and sorry for this long letter, wasn't my intend to be so long.
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tinna

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Posted 2 years ago

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summetj

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When I purchased my SP mower with 7.5 AH battery in 2017 (this spring) I also received a 7.5 AH battery with a manufacture date of Dec 2014 and had similar concerns.

Nothing in their warranty says the equipment can't have sat on a shelf for 2-3 years before you bought it, but like you I was concerned.

Overall, the battery appears to be functioning correctly without serious degradation.

I've made sure it was registered and am keeping an eye on it by using a Kill-a-watt meter to monitor the power that goes back into it after a full discharge so I'll notice if it starts to degrade.
(currently it takes 420 watt/hrs to recharge from a full discharge). 
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tinna

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Thanks for your reply. And...what did you do? What we don't understand how with the most expensive product, an 800$ item, they ship such an old battery!? We have now a total of 5 batteries and all are 2016 - 2017 .. even the 749 lawnmower came with April 2017 battery.
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Ken, Champion

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I suspect that because there isn't a big demand for the biggest, most expensive battery, Ego had a big production run and those are what is still available on shelves. The 7.5Ah battery hit the market in mid-2015 but they didn't start including it with tools until the self-propelled mower and the snow blower, which came later.

What counts is that the warranty starts when you purchase the battery/tool, and it's a three-year warranty.
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tinna

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So that's mean this 2 batteries are made at the very begining, if you say hit the stores in mid of 2015.. :( Anyway, I need something more convincing from you guys to show him to turn him back and don't return all 5 batteries and 7 tools... lol
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Dave .

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I see nothing wrong with returning every last tool if he isn't happy.  Seriously.   It's not like a month or two from now he is going to suddenly be happy with the battery production dates.  3K is a substantial expenditure to not be happy with a product(s).  Only he can decide.   I bet he knows in his gut, how to resolve this to his satisfaction.  If EGO won't budge, I'm willing to bet he is going to return everything.   I don't  blame him one bit.   BUT, perhaps someone else at EGO will resolve his complaint.
(Edited)
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Ken, Champion

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Honestly, if my wife gave me $3,000 worth of Ego tools I wouldn't need a lot of convincing to keep them, especially since they're excellent tools and the tools and batteries carry excellent warranties. If he's going to have a snit fit because of the manufacturing date on two of the batteries, there's not a lot any of us can say to convince him otherwise.
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Michael G

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Tinna - sounds like he likes the EGO tools. He even bragged enough to get others to buy. Why not just return the snowblower and buy another but have them check the battery dates before purchasing. 

Hmmmm...Now that you brought this up though, do we really know when the batteries were manufactured? All of my tools have similar S/N's with the same date code on the main tool, charger, & battery. I would find it hard to believe all three of my 5 tools had all three parts manufactured in the same month. 

Mike
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tinna

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Thank you for your comments. He seems to known in "his gut" Dave very well how to solve this, unfortunately returning all unless EGO will replace this two batteries. This is what I try to change writing here. Even if he loves the tools, for a month he couln't wait the Mondays to move the lawn. He was pissed of more for how was treated on the phone by the EGO customer service.. I told him they are busy and probably for that the guy was so short and ferm. But.. and Mike, I told him too, let's return only the blower and reorder a new one, but he was right this time too. :D How we know the new one don't come with the same old batteries!? How, is not sold in stores, only online.. can't check in the store. we keep order and return until we get the blower with right batteries?????? It's not much easier just to replace 2 batteries? Cmon EGO, you can satisfy a customer, even if is probably in your view a "dificult" one, and make him happy and ME too. Finally is a customer who made you some profit, a substantial one if you add his two bodies..
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Ken, Champion

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Official Response
They're not "old" batteries. They're brand-new and unused, with full warranties. The manufacture date is irrelevant.
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Dave .

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to say the mfgr date is "irrelevant" is quite a stretch, to say the least.
(Edited)
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Ken, Champion

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If the warranty were keyed to the manufacturing date. But it isn't.
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Michael G

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Hopefully they re-charged the batteries every 6-months like the manual specifies.
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Dave .

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there are only so many charge cycles before a battery's ability to hold a useful charge diminishes.  I don't agree with those who postulate that it makes no difference that a battery built many years prior to purchase is not something to be concerned about.  Go tell that story to someone who believes in the fairy godmother.
(Edited)
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Charge cycles and long term storage are two completely different things. I doubt very much that you could tell the difference between two brand new batteries and two that have been sitting at a low state of charge for two years (Ego's Long Term Storage Mode), without doing a laboratory grade discharge test.

Tinna, I honestly think your husband is worrying unnecessarily. If you read the battery manual you'll learn about how Ego's batteries go into storage mode to protect themselves while sitting for long periods of time (they automatically discharge to 30% capacity).

Many people here who bought Ego tools back in the spring of 2014 have commented that those batteries are still going today with no noticeable decay in performance after three years of combined use and storage.
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Michael G

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Blue Angel - But do you think they recharge these previously manufactured batteries every 6-months. I know several members here are Li-Ion battery experts but I have seen power tools where the Li-Ion battery will be disabled if you don't use it for a year.
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Ken, Champion

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I certainly haven't heard of anyone buying a tool with a disabled battery. And I would expect the manufacturer who has a financial interest on not having their most expensive batteries go bad under warranty are storing them properly.
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Michael G

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It was with some Hitachi power tools - batteries wouldn't take a charge and called them and was told from the date code it sat the store for a year and the batteries automatically are disabled for safety reasons. I thought it was bull too but they sent out two new batteries.

Plus, again, do you think EGO recharges these batteries every 6-months like the manual specifies for stored batteries?

Mike
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Ken, Champion

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I don't know, but I know there haven't been problems with the batteries related to manufacturing date. That's kind of what matters.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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The manual says to charge every six months, but I'm pretty sure that's just the lawyers talking.

These are big batteries, actually HUGE batteries when you compare them to typical power tool batteries, most of which have 5-10 cells.

The Battery Management System board does draw some power while the batteries are sitting. This is why the recommendation to charge on some regular schedule. Power tool batteries are known to "die" if they are completely depleted and then left for a long period of time before being charged again... the BMS will eventually draw the batteries down below the low voltage threshold, and then it locks the pack.

The 7.5Ah batteries in question have FORTY TWO cells for the BMS to draw from. Charged to 30% it would take a very, very long time for the BMS to draw the cells down. These big batteries would be far less at risk of this compared to smaller power tool batteries.
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Michael G

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Thanks - great explanation!
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Dave .

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with 42 cells, you have a statistically higher failure rate than with fewer cells.  Think of a LCD screen that is 720.  then bump that up to 1080.  Go to 2k.  Finally, end up with a 4k screen.   The chances of ALL those pixels being good out of the box isn't as good as one with far fewer pixels.  The more "things" there are to fail, the more likely SOMETHING will fail.  that's why shuttle launches and other rocket launches get scrubbed--THE COMPLEXITY, or the huge number of components that must all be working  nominally for the launch to proceed.   I wouldn't get all gushy about "42 cells".
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Blue Angel, Champion

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You may have had a point, were it not for the impressively low production failure rate of large top-tier 18650 lithium cell producers like LG, Samsung and Panasonic (Sanyo).

18650 cells are manufactured so consistently that battery pack failures can almost always be traced back to either the BMS circuitry or some other non-cell related phenomena like poor heat management (design) or bad electrical connections (production issues).

Good thing there's only one BMS in a battery pack, so that's only one thing that can go. Psst... don't tell all those Tesla customers that cells go bad, there are literally THOUSANDS of cells in each car! ;-)
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TheAtomTwister

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Okay, here's my thought, EGO should give a mailing address for the two unwanted-but-perfectly-good 7.5Ah packs, have the unwanted packs shipped back to EGO (Be sure to put a lithium ion battery warning label on the package), then have EGO ship you two new ones upon reception of the old ones.  If EGO is going to send two new batteries, then they should get the old ones back considering that they have not failed and are perfectly good packs.

Also, try calling EGO customer service in the morning when their offices first open--before the line gets long.
(Edited)
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Blue Angel, Champion

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I disagree. This would set a precedent where everyone expects to have their batteries replaced if they are more than a certain age when buying a product.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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In my most humble of opinions, this thread is a perfect example of why companies share less and less information with their customers as time goes by. Mark my words, because of nonsense like this, someday Ego will just decide to stop putting the production date on their batteries and then none of us will have a clue when they were made.

Problem solved.

This is no different than with gauges in cars. Most cars have few, if any, extra gauges any more. Why? Because people get all worried about nothing and start complaining to the dealerships and wasting the company's time and money.

Now you have no idea what your oil pressure is, nor your battery voltage, not even your coolant temperature because the coolant temp gauge in most cars is little more than a glorified trouble light; it goes from C to some point in the middle of the gauge and then doesn't move. Perfect, right? Your car's coolant temp is always perfect, never high, never low, just right.

BS! Your car's coolant temp is all over the map all the time, but most people are better off not knowing that. They'll think something's wrong with their car if the temp goes up a few degrees at a stop light and take it in to get it looked at, wasting everyone's time.

We, the dumb consumers, have unknowingly forced companies to dumb our world down to our level to keep us happy. Nobody takes the time to learn how something works anymore, we just expect perfection. So companies hide more and more information from us until we're satisfied that things look perfect. This costs us dearly in the end because things have to be simplified, streamlined, boiled down to the lowest common denominator and then have most of the useful options removed before the average Joe/Jane can use it perfectly safely while blindfolded without having to think... because if something goes wrong in that scenario it's obviously the fault of the product and the "careless" company that made it. Right? Lol

Apologies for the rant. :-/
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Michael G

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Sorry Blue - I don't agree with your perspective as it relates to this post. I really like my EGO equipment, but, I don't care what warranty I'm getting, I wouldn't want 3 year old batteries delivered with them. Especially with the current replacement cost of the batteries making this snow blower throw-away if battery failure occurs after 3-years service.

Additionally, I wrote this above, I don't think the date on the batteries S/N name plate that I received match the exact manufacture date of the batteries themselves. The nameplate shows S/N and a month/year next to it. On all 5 of my recently purchased tools the date on tool, charger and battery all match. The last 9 digits match. So I think the nameplates are printed/applied just before shipping. In essence your proposal to not print (actual) manufacture date may already be happening.

Mike
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Blue Angel, Champion

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I own cordless Makita, Milwaukee, Bosch and Ego power tools, as well as rechargeable batteries as bare cells for flashlights, AA and AAA Eneloop cells, cell phones, laptops, tablets, razors, toothbrushes...

Of all of those, Ego is the only company that puts a manufacturing date on their batteries.

My point is, when you purchase darn near anything with a battery you have absolutely no idea how old it is. All of a sudden a company comes along with dates on things and there's a problem?

I stand by my thoughts. :-)
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Michael G

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I'll stop, but, most of the items you listed are obsolete well before 3 years.

Mike
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Um, obsolete? Perhaps a super cheap Windows laptop I would agree on, but the rest? My stepson is using my 2010 iPhone 3GS and some of my Makita cordless tools I bought in 2008. The iPhone is on its second battery, the Makita batteries are still going. Heck, I just replaced my cordless beard trimmer a couple years ago, and the first one had a NiCad battery and was 7-8 years old.

In my opinion the term "obsolete" is often confused with the term "less desirable". ;-)
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tinna

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Thank you guys for all of your comments and time spent for my problem. Sad and disappointed about EGO was quiet in this discussion :( I will see if I decide to show the topic to my man or not or he will find out by himself.. he is going to be home later today and he will have time to make his research about this and decide if is still think to decide .. didn't talked about this last week or so. Like a final thought of mine.. we leave in "customer first" era, I don't discuss how we get here, but right now almost every company / stores do a "no question asked" refund / return / replacement or what the client want.. Competition is so big , this is the single way to survive on the market for a company. I worked some time ago in sales and marketing and know how unwanted but necessary to solve every customer request is to survive. I do not predict a good future for EGO without this, Even if probably the EGO product are close to perfect right now but without this .. and together with of course the stock / Home Depot problem will kill EGO. Right now I became sceptical too if we must keep the products or not if probably will be not any more on the market and who to call, probably even before the 3 / 5 year when warranties are going to be expired. Just hope EGO want to survive and do what needs to be done. Back to our problem.. a 3k investment for a such a short period of the time in some tools is unwanted. How I love my man and I want him to be happy, I will not try to change his mind or arguing with him , will let him to go on whatever he decide. The 3 options which are keep the 3k wort EGO s, return all and switch to a cheaper battery operated tools and keep his old gas operated craftsman tools which BTW are working all after more than 10 years of use (I think he can live with the had change and oil/gas mixing frustrations ).
There is a saying from where we come from, didn't hear it here but probably is here too..
YOU GIVE IT A "PENNY " BUT, STAY IN FRONT

Peace
Tinna
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Dana Lombardozzi

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lipo batteries are not like a standard battery, your ego batteries start the warranty when you register them . so 3 years from the registration date .  lipo batteries stay asleep until use . I know this technology is strange but trust it.   
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tinna

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Any new advice / comment?
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Ken, Champion

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I don't know what you're looking for that hasn't already been said.
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Amber F., Official EGO Rep

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Official Response
We appreciate everyone taking the time to chime in and offer advice. We sincerely hope Tinna's conversation with her husband goes well and that ultimately, they decide to give EGO Power+ a chance- especially after making such an investment. Either way, we wish them nothing but the best of luck moving forward. We are now closing this conversation. Thank you again for all of your input!

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