Great Ego Blower Test

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Kite Army compares the Ego 56V, Echo 58V and Kobalt 80V blowers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWCRPJn5Dm8

A solid showing for the Ego!
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Posted 4 years ago

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Tim1951

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That was interesting and yes, a very solid showing for the Ego!
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Ben

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I would have liked them to do a full time lapse with the 7.5 and see how long it ran.  Otherwise EGO did what they do best and proved to be superior.
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DJDDay

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That was a pretty bad a$s video comparison - thanks for sharing!
(Edited)
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TheAtomTwister

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There are several problems that I as a physicist and scientist have with this test, though I do have a few things to learn about air flow dynamics and I am working with that. First of all, you will notice that the Kobalt 80V appears to be modified. Notice how it does not use the tapered blower tube that it comes with? Either that or its tube was modified. In either case, the test was not carried out properly. The second thing that stands out to me is that I care little about how well the blowers keep beach balls in the air compared to how much I care about how well the blowers blow leaves, and I know that Echo falls a bit short of the other two, and it has very poor battery design. The EGO and Kobalt are both blowers that I would put my money on, and I intend to buy a Kobalt so I can do a full side-by-side comparison. Both blowers have places in which they can improve, but both of those two blowers are very very effective based on the use that I put my EGO to before it quit and based on what I have seen online about the Kobalt and Greenworks blowers. 

I do believe that EGO makes the best of the batteries. I've never really looked into the Echo blower, but I doubt that the battery will really last very long, but again, I've never tested it. I'd choose the Husqvarna battery blower over Echo any day, and I'd choose EGO over them both.

It is a cool test, though. I just wish that Kobalt's blower was not modified... There is more for me to look into here, however. 

Would I choose Kobalt/Greenworks over EGO? No. I would take them both.  Really it would almost be a coin toss were I to choose between them. I think I'd trust EGO customer service over Greenworks or Kobalt just because I know EGO pretty well, unlike Greenworks or Kobalt.

The other variable here is nozzle shape. I do not know exactly how that will affect the way air disperses or how it would affect blower range, and I intend to do testing with this, but I would imagine that EGO would win it in that respect. There is much for me to look into here.
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Steven Naden

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Hello!  I am trying to find out about the "battery charger......I need to keep my my blower on board in my truck for a back up to my backpack. (i run a landscape biz)....so I would like to plug the charger into my trucks 12V (cig lighter) AC Converter......is this possible to accomplish on the road?? I use my 12V converter to charge and power my phone, laptop etc......it says it supports a 100 watts.
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Steven, the standard charger is rated at 210W, so to use it in your truck you'll need a more powerful DC-AC converter.

Keep in mind, if you ever want to use the more powerful rapid charger it's rated at 550W.
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Steven Naden

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Thanks for the reply. So tell me what inverter would be sufficient ?!
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Steven Naden

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Is this what you're referring to?
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Sure thing, and with power to spare!
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TheAtomTwister

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I'm sorry, but that test really doesn't do the Kobalt justice. I just bought the Kobalt and tested it with the ball, and I tried it with the EGO tube, which appears to be what he is using on it, which would test the CFM, and the tube that came with the blower, the Kobalt tube, and it blew the ball much higher with its tube than with the EGO tube, and the reason why is a simple matter of fluid dynamics. Also, the Kobalt overpowers the EGO by quite a significant amount, in fact, I think it is the strongest cordless electric handheld on the market, blowing between 440 and 470CFM at between 133 and 143mph, 133 if 440CFM, 143 if 470CFM. Without any tube, it blows 500CFM at 129mph, which is over 130% of EGO's force and over 200% of its air power, though the air power really doesn't mean anything, it appears to be the force in Newtons that matters. However, there is EGO, and there is SUPER EGO. I have just upgraded my EGO blower by adding a second fan to the first one that was already in it, the second fan being a PC fan that affects an even larger volume of air than EGO's fan does. I expect, particularly because the motor still spins the same speed, that the CFM will be greatly increased, and therefore so will the velocity, however, I have not tested it for power, I'm still trying to get everything balanced so it functions, but things are going well for the SUPER EGO.  Also, I hear DeWalt is also beating y'all, so I think its time for a fan upgrade. The power is no longer beyond belief. Let's change that.  Make it 630CFM at 120mph, baby!
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DJDDay

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@TheAtomTwister: video or it didn't happen.
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TheAtomTwister

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Yes sir. The links are here on this thread. :D
(Edited)
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DJDDay

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Videos set to private. Scientist fail.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Curious, how are you measuring the CFM and velocity?

Regarding DeWalt, I'm under the impression their 20V tools are price point competition for Ego more than their 40V lineup is?
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I just put the EGO tube on the Kobalt. It doesn't lock on, but it does sit around the front well enough to make a nice seal and it has enough length for basic fluid dynamic laws to apply. The area of the front of the tube doesn't change, so if the velocity changes, the CFM changes proportionally. I just did what Kite Army did, I floated a ball above with the Kobalt and with the EGO, except I did this in the house. Initially the Kobalt beat the EGO, but not for very long. It doesn't have something stepping up the current as the voltage decreases unlike the EGO.

Yes, I'll bet that you are correct, though their 40V blower came before the 20V blower, but the 20V blower is actually more of a jobsite blower than a leaf blower. I can only wait to see how high the ball goes with the new fan, which actually blows more air than the EGO fan does when they are both spinning the same RPM.

For them being separate, I use the thrust that the blower puts out to calculate the force in Newtons that the blower puts out. Cubic Feet per Minute can be converted into cubic meters per second and then to kilograms per second by using air density, then there is the velocity in meters per second. Momentum is of course mass times velocity and is in Newton-seconds, and Newton-seconds per second is just Newtons.  By then measuring the diameter of the front of the blower or blower tube, I calculate the cross-sectional area to know what volume of air would come out at some particular speed, and that is how I know that if the Kobalt blew with the blower tube 500CFM, it would be going 151mph, which it doesn't do, otherwise my weight scale would indicate it. Plus, I proved with the ball test that the Kobalt blows without the tube 500CFM at 129mph on full when fully charged, which is not enough force to put out that same volume out its tube. It is only enough to put out about 465CFM at 140mph, which yields about the same force in Newtons.  I'd like to have a more accurate scale than I have, but the measurements are good enough for now.  

Measuring the front of a blower tube to see how much CFM it will blow at a certain speed is an excellent way to really see whether or not the specs given on a blower are any good. I did this with the EGO, and it looks like they underestimated the speed of the air on low given that their CFM measurement was right, and they overestimated the speed of the air on turbo if their CFM measurement was right. Otherwise, they got their CFM measurements a little bit off, but in either case, they are pretty close to the actual numbers, so close in fact that it does not make too much of a difference.

I intend to create a video of these tests and the math that comes with them.  I proved through this and through just general use that the Kobalt outperforms STIHL's biggest and baddest gas handheld blower, making it unless I'm mistaking the best performing handheld blower on the market, gas or electric. All EGO needs to remedy that is a broader fan blade, and I'm going to prove it in about 6 to 8 hours from now depending on how securely the PC fan is bound to the shaft of the EGO blower. It is centered perfectly right now and the first trial worked until I turned it on turbo, but I don't think I successfully centered it the first time. This time, I did, secured it in there with an EGO nut from another blower, and then unlike last time, superglued the fan to the nut after fastening the nut and centering the fan. The blower now sounds a lot different. Instead of emitting a 184Hz and 2208Hz sound due to its motor going about 10800RPM and the jet fan having 12 blades, an additional frequency is there, 1288Hz, 7x the motor frequence, for the PC fan has 7 blades.

This website has a tone generator used for hearing and stuff. http://plasticity.szynalski.com/tone-generator.htm Open three tabs here, set one to 184Hz, one to 1288Hz, and one to 2208Hz, turn the volume of the two higher frequencies down to 14% for 1288Hz, 9% for 2208, or turn down the 2208Hz one until it sounds like your EGO blower on low and have the new 1288Hz be 150% the volume of 2208Hz, and you have approximately what my blower currently sounds like on low power. To simulate Turbo, set one to 350Hz, one to 2450Hz, and one to 4200Hz. I should warn you, you may not want your speaker or headphone volume on full when you turn on these sounds. You won't know how loud they'll be when you first turn them on, and one may be on resonance with your ears, which may be most unpleasant.
(Edited)
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Can you post a pic of the Ego and Kobalt tubes together? Are they similar looking enough that you could confuse one for the other? Is the opening size different?

I'm not sure why KA would put an Ego tube on a Kobalt blower for his test? If he did, and the output at the tip is greater with the original Kobalt tube, the run time would suffer some amount, you would think?
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SCDC, Champion

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Adding to Blue's comment, when it comes to battery life.  "Resistance is Futile". 
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Except when it comes to resistance at the blower's intake, which creates a vacuum, reduces air density, and reduces the work done by the fan. This is why your vacuum cleaner actually speeds up when you cap the end of the hose. :-)
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TheAtomTwister

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Here is the first video of a series on this. I have more to come. https://youtu.be/IDySAI55vFs
(Edited)
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TheAtomTwister

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By the way, Husqvarna makes a 940Wh, 36V backpack battery.
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TheAtomTwister

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By the way, Husqvarna makes a 940Wh, 36V backpack battery.
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DJDDay

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Videos are set to private. Scientist fail.
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TheAtomTwister

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Sorry for the double post. Try it now.
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TheAtomTwister

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Sorry for the double post. Try it now.
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TheAtomTwister

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Hey, EGO, it seems as though the forum is glitching out on me. I'd like to know what is causing these double posts.
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David Cline

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Who knew so many people used blowers to float balls!  Here I was thinking everyone used leaf blowers for... well, leaves. 

All this talk about air displacement and exit velocity doesn't mean much unless you have freakishly mutated trees with massive leaves or are repurposing your leaf blower for some other use.
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TheAtomTwister

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Don't forget the pros :D. And yes, I always thought it might be fun to turn a leaf blower into a thruster for a sying flute... err. flying suit. :D
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DJDDay

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The ball floating demo, as posted by Kite Army in the OP's thread, is to demonstrate how much CFPM is pushed through each blower and how long the battery lasts.  It's a pretty telling demo, IMHO.
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TAT, I did a little thinking. Acceleration = force applied to a mass. If you know how long that force is acting on the mass, you can figure out what the final velocity of that mass is.

The reason I ask. If you assume all the air acceleration takes place in the fan, then the distance would only be the thickness of the fan itself, maybe an inch or a little more?

The problem is that there is a taper in the tube, though gradual, and may also be a taper in the blower housing as well. If the air passing through the fan is accelerating after the fan, there's a long, gradual acceleration taking place that gives you a compound acceleration.

Imagine a much larger diameter fan that could move much larger volumes of air per revolution, so it can move the same CFM as the smaller Ego fan can while spinning much slower. Now add a super long tube and gradually taper it down to the same opening as the Ego. The air will be mostly accelerating in the tube, not the fan, and will do so very gradually over a much longer distance.

Measuring the reaction force at the rear of that theoretical blower would indicate a lower value because you're taking longer to accelerate the air to the same velocity. Therefore, I'm not sure if measuring reaction force is a good way to estimate a blower's output?

The other thing I thought of regarding the force measurement is, there's a negative pressure at the blower input due to the dynamics of accelerating that same mass of air INTO the fan. The Kobalt is a rear feeder while the Ego is a bottom feeder. Whatever additional force is generated by the Kobalt blower's intake path is additive, while the Ego's has a significant amount in the vertical direction and is not additive.

I'm not saying for sure that your conclusions are wrong (Kobalt is more powerful than Ego), I'm just suggesting that your methods may be giving you inaccurate information from which to draw them. :-)

The Kobalt advertises 30% more energy in its battery pack (160Wh vs 112Wh), so all else equal you would expect an advantage in either power output, run time, or some combination of the two. Based on that, I thought Kite Army's video seemed to make sense, on the surface at least.
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I actually thought that the air in front of the fan if anything would be pressurized by having to push the air in front of the tube out of the way and by having air pushed up against it with the fan. I've been tempted to put a pressure meter into the Toro with the concentrator and stuff like that. Whatever the case, I think my uncle and I are going to do that Troy-Bilt mod, which will be a lot of fun :D.
(Edited)
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TheAtomTwister

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Actually the Kobalt's battery advertises 144Wh.  Also, test the idea of air acceleration by buying the Troy-Bilt Jet and remove the red sphere, and replace the impeller with a large jet fan.  That actually should be an easy mod if you can find the proper fan.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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So Kobalt is one of those companies who are using 4.0V per cell to market the pack voltage (20 cells x 4 = 80V), but only using 3.6V per cell to determine the pack's capacity (3.6V x 20 cells x 2.0Ah = 144Wh). Ego uses 4.0V per cell for both. Neither approach is correct, they should ALL be using 3.6V per cell for everything. We have DeWalt and their "20V MAX" nonsense to thank for all this.

Man... It's amazing there are no standards set for this stuff.
(Edited)
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Yep. With that said, I have a voltmeter that I can use to periodically test the voltage of the batteries.  It is true, the pack maxes at around 82V and I have not tested the nominal voltage, but I do believe that IMRs are rated at 3.6V and ICRs are rated at 3.7V, but I don't know whether or not I am right, but I know that it doesn't matter, if you want to know a battery's voltage, pull out the voltmeter, just as if you want to know a blower's speed and CFM with certain tubes, attachments, or without any, you have to measure the cross-sectional area of the front to get approximate CFM per mph, and then you have to measure mph by measuring thrust, which can be done with either a weight scale or a large pendulum with a flat surface to mount the blower on.  I prefer the weight scale. There are probably other methods, but those are the best ones that I can think of.  At least Kobalt decided to note the specs on the battery, 80V max, 72V nominal.  EGO does not state the nominal voltage of their cells, but they also do not discharge their cells as much.  The real question is how much energy is used by the ego tools from full charge to shutdown?  If the blower uses a continuous 672W for 10 minutes, then it uses 112Wh, but I based that off of the idea that the nominal voltage on the pack was 56V, and the capacity being 2Ah, and total discharge.  To actually know the current drawn by the blower would require an ammeter.  I'd like to see a voltage over time and current over time throughout the blower's cycle of use to calculate how much energy in total the blower actually drains from a fully charged battery. I know, or at least think, that the Kobalt drains its batteries further, but it is hard to know because EGO steps up its current as the voltage of the battery drops, Kobalt does not.

Yes, you are right with your statement. Also, terms for mph and CFM should be associated with the exact state of the blower in the small print on the box. The Kobalt blows 500CFM at 129mph on full with no attachments, not even a tube, as I said.  Kobalt says on the box that the battery nominal voltage is 72V, and the battery says 144Wh capacity, EGO says 112Wh max.

It does kind of get to me sometimes, this junk. Troy-Bilt's JET does 330CFM at 130mph out the tube. STIHL's BG86C does not reach 150mph with the round nozzle if it does 459CFM, and it doesn't perform like 150mph.  This all annoys me. Toro does 250mph with the concentrator, it doesn't say what speed with just the tube, though somewhere out there, they say 350CFM in blower mode, which makes the speed 151mph, which seems right. Is this Pirates of the Caribbean or something? with all of these guys being sleezy with technicalities to mislead people? According to so many specs, gas handhelds should be outperforming the Kobalt, yet they don't. This is ridiculous. I'll be uploading a comparison of EGO, Kobalt, and STIHL later on. I don't know when.
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TheAtomTwister

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A small note, Kobalt says on the box 80V max*

*Initial, no-load voltage peaks at 80V, nominal, typical-load voltage is 72V.

At least they bother to say it.
(Edited)
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Bosch does the same with their 12v tools, and they even have a nice graph of voltage vs. run time. But it's still no excuse for companies just to claim whatever you want, however you want. It should be standardized.

In Europe, the same Bosh tools are related 10.8v.
(Edited)
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TheAtomTwister

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I see. So call for nominal voltage pretty much. I sort of just want to hear the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in respect to tool specs. I'm actually curious about what would happen were people to actually do that. There are still performance details, of course... It really doesn't matter that much to me in the end, but it would be nice. 

They speak the truth in respect to voltage, but not the whole truth. There is also of course efficiency in respect to input and output power and general tool performance. The voltage doesn't mean too much to me personally unless I'm going to use the battery for some kind of crafting project.

Additionally, EGO battery should be rated nominally for 100.8Wh for 3.6V cells, for 3.7V, 103.6Wh.
(Edited)
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TheAtomTwister

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So apparently Kite Army's Kobalt tube was damaged during shipping and he was forced to use an EGO tube. He's lucky the EGO tube fit the Kobalt so well :P.
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DJDDay

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It still takes the Kobalt almost 40 minutes to charge, whereas the Ego takes 20.  In the unmodified factory versions, the difference of CFPM is so little, I'd still err on the side of Ego.  
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TheAtomTwister

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I only lean toward Kobalt and Greenworks because of ergonomics in my hands, extra air speed (between 135mph and 140mph with tube), and the variable-speed trigger and controls being within the reach of my thumb. The trigger is really nice, by the way.  I really do like the phase-change bands in the EGO battery and the current step-up system in the EGO that sustains power. I really do like the EGO, and that is why I have it. :-)
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DJDDay

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Remember though - it's not the air speed that's important.  It's the CFPM.  Is there really that much of a definitive difference between stock Ego and Kobalt fans/chutes?
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TheAtomTwister

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Hey, the air speed is important. A ceiling fan will not blow leaves well, despite having so much more CFM than any leaf blower, and it is definitely important when moving stuck debris. CFM matters too, you could have a straw through which you blow air at 500mph, but there is no CFM. FORCE depends on both volume per unit time AND velocity. That is why when I deal with leaves that are stuck in the mud, I use both blowers, because the EGO doesn't get the leaves that are really stuck out as well as the Kobalt does, but I want the CFM for moving huge piles of leaves. They both matter.  And as I said somewhere, EGO has higher CFM than does Kobalt when they both have their respective tubes, compare 480CFM to between 430 and 470, depending on the Kobalt's charge, but the Kobalt has more speed, which gives it noticeably more thrust, and thus more force. The Kobalt is, however, a bigger, more powerful blower, 80V at about the same current as the EGO, about 12 amps. That makes the input on the Kobalt around 900 Watts, so of course it's going to be more powerful, and it is also more expensive. And yes, there is a significant difference between the fans, and I'll show you tomorrow. I have an EGO jet fan, and the back of the Kobalt can very easily be removed to expose its fan.

Again, its user preference. the Kobalt is heavier, the battery, less reliable, and every once in a while, it has a bad startup, so it has its issues that lately have inclined me more toward EGO again, especially since it was so hassle-free getting that bad blower replaced, and I don't know that it would be so hassle-free dealing with that kind of problem with the Kobalt, but the air speeds do matter, and I'd like that to be taken into consideration for the next generation of EGO blowers, more speed for tough debris.

I lean for speed because speed works, hence my experience. CFM matters too, but it needs more speed. 480CFM at 130mph instead of 92mph would really make a difference. Trust me on that one.  I have two EGO blower tubes, I'm going to try to taper one of them to get some extra speed, with all of this said.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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With an extra tube to play with you can see if there's any gain to be had. I have a feeling, though, that it won't take too much restriction in the tube to start backing up the fan.

These things work best with little restriction.
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TheAtomTwister

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I already see what you mean. I just flattened the front of one of the EGO tubes, and yeah, its taxing the fan, as I knew it would.   I remember when I got my first blower, how it really didn't tolerate things being put on the front... yeah. My little fan tweaks I think would remedy that a bit... I think I'd really have to broaden the blades a lot to really get it to work... I'm gonna go do some math.
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TheAtomTwister

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Well, so I just worked with the blower tube for a bit, and whether or not I made it stronger by flattening the front of the tube by just the right amount, I don't know, but it is getting the leaves that are stuck in the grass out more easily now. DIY engineering and power tools make a really good mix if mixed just right...
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Blue Angel, Champion

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If you have both stock and modified tubes, it would be interesting to se a run time test both in "high" and "turbo" modes.

If the blower is actually doing more work you would think the run time would be less. It has been said that the art of Engineering is a good compromise. :-)

Is this using the stock Ego fan or the modified unit?
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TheAtomTwister

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I put the unit back to normal in respect to fans. I note of course that it seems as though there is a lot of torque that is wasted, pretty much, so basically, efficiently is lost due to lack of optimization of magnetic field strength and air resistance.  It still reached the full 20,000 to 21,000 RPM on turbo with the two fans just as it did with one fan, and while I did not check to see if the runtimes would be affected, I get the impression that it just took more air resistance to oppose the magnetic field interaction between the coils in the motor's base and the permanent magnets in the motor. In essence, greater output can be yielded by this exact input if a broader fan is used, there'd be less energy wasted in a magnetic field that doesn't do all of the work that it can.  

The only problem with this idea is that I noticed no change in power output with the jet fan + the pc fan from just the jet fan, and in fact, the strength and power output may have actually decreased. I don't know for sure, despite hearing more air disturbance where the fans were, but I do know that there was no more power and there was more noise, so I just removed the pc fan and that was that.  I'm really just going to try different fans until I optimize efficiency... 

Tell me if you followed me through that, that isn't one of my best compositions.
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TheAtomTwister

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But yeah, essentially the magnetic field in the motor can be taxed with a stronger opposing force before it begins to struggle, no change in input power. It can do more work than it is doing with the current fan with no change in input power, so it appears. Further testing will either support that idea or the contrary. I'm doubtful of the latter.

Just for good measure, though I may be overkilling the illustration of the idea, you could up the current by a good 2000%, increasing the magnetic fields being cycled by a factor of 20, yet keep the cycling rate the same, causing the motor to still go at 21,000RPM while doing the same amount of work on the air as it was before. In this instance, the current can be cut a bit and the motor will still be able to run the fan at the same rate, 21,000RPM with less input power. This may require some tweaking of the controller, but this is a possibility, or instead of cutting the current, you up the load on the motor, getting everything you can out of the torque that it provides. Using the Dremel idea builder or some kind of 3D-printer, one can print a fan that is identical to what I call for, porbably just broaden the blades without changing any pitch algorithms, create a mold for it, and cast it in something stronger than whatever plastic is used by the 3D-printer, get it all balanced out, and give it a try. If the RPM remains the same and there is no change in air speed, try tapering the nozzle, see if it can take more restriction than the old fan did. If that doesn't work, use a normal nozzle and tweak the blade pitch algorithm. Keep searching for the perfect fan until you find it. If you never do find it, then either lower the current or up the motor's RPM without upping the current and tax it harder that way. 
(Edited)