110V Battery Power Bank

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This conversation has been merged. Please reference the main conversation: Power station/generator

It would be great to have a 110v power bank that would support 2 - 6 EGO batteries in unison (any assortment / size). This would replace a generator at job site, tailgating, camping or backyard bbq's. Give it 6 standard sockets and 4 usb ports. Also add positive and negative 12volt taps so it can recharge the batteries from an automobile. 
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james greer

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Posted 3 years ago

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David HD, Champion

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Sign me up, I like one for this Christmas!!!!!
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Blue Angel, Champion

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Me too!!!
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Blue Angel, Champion

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A unit like this has been requested for some time now, and I agree it would be awesome!


Ego's batteries are large enough that you could get decent power out of even one 2Ah battery, and setting it up with Peak Power Technology (like the snowblower), you could simply add more or larger batteries if you need more power.


A 12V charging input would be genius, and would allow charging with not only a vehicle cigarette lighter socket, but also solar panels!  How awesome would that be for camping!  Power all day whenever you need it and power at night from the batteries that were charged during the day!


I'm planning to start a construction project next summer and something like this could be my sole power source.

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iAmMax

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Make it 110-120 volt (56x2) with 15amp circuitry and strap on my back (or attach to my corded mower). Include integral 110/120 volt charger, a single battery expansion slot and [a] fused 12 volt I/O port(s). IOW, a combination backpack battery/charger with single 15amp I/O. A single standard 110/120 v outlet would be enough for me but two or more could be useful.
(Edited)
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iAmMax

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What is the feasibility for 112v (56x2) battery technology with standard 15amp maximum discharge current. That could power any thing that you could plug into a standard 15amp circuit. I think there is potential high consumer market demand if the cost to the consumer is no more than $500. Such a battery could serve as a quick household emergency backup electric power supply as well as any household chores requiring mobile electric power. Is the battery technology headed in that direction and if so, how soon could it be possible for reality?
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Jacob

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The voltage would be 110-120. Just because the batteries are 56v doesn't mean they will be 112v ac with 2 of them. A smart inverter would handle the conversion from VDC to VAC. 110vac is a sine wave that is +55v to -55v (120vac +60vac to -60vac. The total difference in voltage is your ac voltage.
I agree that this is a must and an easy to make item.
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iAmMax

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Thanks for the explanation. I don't know the technicalities but do understand the electricity would need to be converted from dc to ac. Whether it could or would be done with a single large 112v battery or two separate smaller 56v batteries is not really my point. The way that voltage technology has increased (doubled?) the last few years makes me believe that '112v' is in the near future. I do like James Greer's basic idea of using the peak power technology to combine the output of two batteries into a portable general purpose 110-120vac battery 'bank'. I also was thinking it could still be used with 56v tools in addition to having 12v and USB capabilities. My wish would be a battery that I could strap onto my back that has its' own charger and an expansion bay for a second battery. Then I could eventually replace my current corded lawn mower with the 22"SP 112vac mower that I'm hoping EGO is working on in their labs. I think it's just a matter of time before the cost is reduced enough to satisfy the market.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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A boost converter could step up to 60V and hold it there, then the inverter could switch it up for +\- AC. I'm not sure if that's how inverters work? If not, just boost to 120V and drive the sine wave.

Hopefully it would be a PURE sine wave, not modified, so anything will run off of it properly.
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Exrace

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This company makes invertors that run on 56v.
http://www.solinba.net/

I wonder how the snowblower is wired to use two batteries?
I understand you can use batteries of different sizes but a 7.5 could run this invertor for some time. This will be one of my winter projects to try this setup using an invertor like this.

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Blue Angel, Champion

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As far as we know the snowblower uses the batteries in parallel. So a 7.5 and a 2.5 would act like a single 10Ah battery.

In my opinion, this setup in a power source would be much better than running two batteries in series. It allows mixing battery capacities where a series setup limits you to the capacity of the smallest battery.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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DeWalt's Power Station works in series. It requires four batteries to work at all, and it's total useable output is limited by the smallest battery or the battery with the lowest charge level. Not ideal:


It also uses a modified sine wave inverter which can damage some types of electronics. A pure sine wave inverter is the way to go.

If Ego's power source stepped up from 56V to 120V you could use any number of batteries, from one to however many slots the unit has.
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Jacob

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Im like 78.243% sure i know how the batteries are wired in the snowblower. The blower makes a purr sound, like its switching sources. Also. Both batteries died within 3 seconds of eachother. It seems to me that it is pulling from the highest voltage from the 2 batteries. Then once that battery has gone down to the others voltage, it switches to the other battery. I do not think they are running parallel as this would balance the 2 batteries voltage effectively charging one and discharging the other. Plus they could not do that because the prongs in the other slot would be live.

So next chance i get, ill run it with one battery.
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matt.mackinnon

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I would not be surprised if the Dewalt didn't have any sort of sine wave circuit inside.  For the type of machines it was designed for, it would likely have a square wave inside of it.  Or at best a 4 or 8 step sine wave.  If you take a look at some of the UPS on the market.  The ones that have a true sine wave are multiple times more expensive than ones without.  silly part is that the electronics to make this type of unit is not new or revolutionary by any means.  I've been using a UPS on my electronics for the past 25 years.  What is interesting is that someone finally caught on to the idea of having the batteries external and that there are quite a number of people with multiple power tool batteries.

As for how many batteries it would take to make it work.  I can see why dewalt uses 4 batteries as it would likely pull too much current from just a single installed battery and also the run time would simply be too short for it to be viable.  From my UPS they rate them in VA.  for instance a 500VA ups has   a small 12v battery with a run time of about 2-3 minutes @ 300 watts draw.  That would be useless for anyone to use.  My 2000VA ups has 4 larger 12v batteries and gets 13min @ 1400watts or by comparison 1:35 @ 300watts.   I don't know enough (or really anything) about Li batteries, but I am sure that they are more power dense than old Lead Acid, but likely you will need multiple ones like they do in my large 2000VA ups.
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Jennifer VandeWater, Community Manager

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Official Response
Great idea James. This is something we are looking at for the future. We'll keep you posted if we make a power bank in the future.
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Robert Minch

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This is a great market opportunity for Ego!  Ryobi already has things like spotlights, work lights, radios with USB mobile device chargers built in, etc.  Ego could do a higher-power, multi-functional emergency backup device with 110v, 12v, USB, area light and more.  It could be part of everyone's kit to prepare for storms, floods and other emergencies at home or in their vehicles.  It could even have optional jumper cables like some of the single-use products on the market.  Imagine the tremendous value added even by the simple functionality of being able to charge an entire family's mobile phones multiple times during extended power outages.
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iAmMax

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Jennifer, it is encouraging to know that EGO is giving consideration to 110-120vac battery technology for the future. Of course this will be a considerable leap and the size might be too great for practical use in some of your current tools. That is why I believe a backpack version with built in charging would be a logical first step into the 110-120v. Assuming the voltage could be stepped down to 56vdc, users could just plug the backpack into their existing tools with a proprietary cord accessory. Needless to say that you would not necessarily need to go to 110-120vac to implement such a backpack concept. If 110-120vac is still too far into the future, the same concept could work with larger (10-15Ahr) 56v batteries. I have seen a demonstration of a competitor's backpack that connects to the tool through a dummy battery case. Could you have your engineers study the possibility of adding a proprietary port to the back of a future 56v battery that could be connected by the cord to the backpack while in operation in the tool to extend runtime using your peak power technology. In my job with the county parks, we need at least 4 hours of runtime without charging and this could do it. If any of this is original thinking, I hereby give EGO permission to use it.
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Blue Angel, Champion

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You mean something like this? ;-)

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iAmMax

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Yes very similar to this but 56v (or 110-120vac with 56vdc I/O capability) and with integral 110vac charging including active cooling, one battery (or possibly two separate using the peak power technology) at least one of which could be removed, and 12v I/O similar to the power bank that James described (USB could be attained by adapter). Also, as described in my embodiment, the cord would connect to a future version 56v battery with a connection port in the rear. This would allow the tool to remain balanced and also maximize total runtime.
(Edited)
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james greer

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Thanks Jennifer!
something that is portable by one person, about the size of a traditional handyman's tool box or a small tailgating generator (like Honda) would be ideal. Install a handle on the top. The left and right side of the device should accommodate a row of  3 or 4 EGO batteries for a total of 6 or 8. The front would contain all of the power outlets while the backside would have a power cable for traditional 110ac battery recharging as well as + an -  12v jacks for recharging from alternate sources like an automobile or solar cells.
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Pope

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I see multiple threads for this idea, hope this makes transition to a planned product.  Also seeing posts for pure sine inverter (great!), alternative charging ports for solar and/or car charging (also great for back woods work).

It makes sense to me if this device charged or converted 4 or 6 packs that they should likely be in a vertical configuration like the rapid charger, maybe with back to back packs.  That would make thermal design much easier and the package could have carry handles on the ends (which would also be great to strap it down in the basket of a quad).  I figure if I load the thing up with 4x 7.5AH packs, we'd need a couple of hand-holds anyway for the 25lbs of battery (plus whatever is needed for the charger/inverter) the whole package would likely be around 40-45lbs fully loaded.  Oddly similar to an EU2000, lol.  But that would be 1.5kwh of juice and no worries about noise and/or starting a fire with the generator and/or fuel.  

Lastly, I would ask please use a PFC AC charge mechanism so it plays nice on the grid.  I figure this is necessary just because 4x rapid chargers would need a PFC stage to ensure maximum juice can be pulled from a 15amp outlet (what does NEC say, 80% of the rated circuit?  So 12amps is the maximum, or about 1400wh of charge power).  Otherwise we'd only get about 900wh of charge power and a hot plug & cord.

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